Comments on: Dob in a Trot http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/dob-in-a-trot/ Observations from Carlton's Lone Classical Liberal Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:29:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: JoelB http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4044 JoelB Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:00:39 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/19/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4044 Andrew - Point taken and agreed on the Australian specific nature of your analysis - which I think can be traced to our unique political history... and, indeed, 'fundamentalists' have not caused much strife here, but they are, or at least certain of them, are capable of 'hating' along with the best of the left... Andrew - Point taken and agreed on the Australian specific nature of your analysis - which I think can be traced to our unique political history… and, indeed, ‘fundamentalists’ have not caused much strife here, but they are, or at least certain of them, are capable of ‘hating’ along with the best of the left…

]]> By: Down and Out Of S?†i G??n http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4043 Down and Out Of S?†i G??n Mon, 22 Jan 2007 04:37:43 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/19/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4043 I think I recognized one person, but I couldn't be sure. Mind you, it has been a couple of years since I ran into her - but I doubt she's changed that much. Troubled, certainly. Violent, never. I could see her at a protest, but I couldn't see her chucking something. Let's not make the mistake that all 28 people were caught in the act of thumping someone else. As the article says: <i>In releasing the images yesterday, Detective Superintendent Richard Grant said the 28 <b>either witnessed</b> or were suspected of perpetrating the worst of the violence that left one policeman with a broken wrist, and others bitten and showered with glass.</i> Some of the people in the photo look like thugs, but the majority look like posers. I believe a few were selected because they had cameras in their hand - meaning that there might be more photographic evidence for the prosecution. I'm still deubious about Andrew's conclusion that the left is less civil than the right. I still remember when full-on skinheads were common in Brisbane, with white shoelaces in black Doc Martens. Nasty pieces of work, too. I think I recognized one person, but I couldn’t be sure. Mind you, it has been a couple of years since I ran into her - but I doubt she’s changed that much. Troubled, certainly. Violent, never. I could see her at a protest, but I couldn’t see her chucking something.

Let’s not make the mistake that all 28 people were caught in the act of thumping someone else. As the article says:

In releasing the images yesterday, Detective Superintendent Richard Grant said the 28 either witnessed or were suspected of perpetrating the worst of the violence that left one policeman with a broken wrist, and others bitten and showered with glass.

Some of the people in the photo look like thugs, but the majority look like posers. I believe a few were selected because they had cameras in their hand - meaning that there might be more photographic evidence for the prosecution.

I’m still deubious about Andrew’s conclusion that the left is less civil than the right. I still remember when full-on skinheads were common in Brisbane, with white shoelaces in black Doc Martens. Nasty pieces of work, too.

]]> By: Andrew Norton http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4042 Andrew Norton Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:37:25 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/19/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4042 Joel - My argument was Australia-specific; or rather it was a general argument that depth of feeling and links to personal identity are the sources of the motive for incivility or violence, but that in the Australian context this is more prevalent on the left than the right - which as you say, and which my data from the Australian Election Survey supports, is on average less politicised. So your Spain point is consistent with what I am arguing. I'm not sure about the 'fundamentalists' here - despite the excitement they have caused in the last few years they don't really seem to have caused much strife. Joel - My argument was Australia-specific; or rather it was a general argument that depth of feeling and links to personal identity are the sources of the motive for incivility or violence, but that in the Australian context this is more prevalent on the left than the right - which as you say, and which my data from the Australian Election Survey supports, is on average less politicised. So your Spain point is consistent with what I am arguing.

I’m not sure about the ‘fundamentalists’ here - despite the excitement they have caused in the last few years they don’t really seem to have caused much strife.

]]> By: JoelB http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4041 JoelB Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:45:33 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/19/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4041 I am not sure that I agree with your proposistion, Andrew, that there are more left wing haters than right. I have no statistical evidence to back up my hunch - simply experience, but I would propose that this may seem to be the case because of the *forum* in which 'haters' tend to express themselves. And this, I would suggest, would differe from country to country and culture to culture. The 'left' (verrrrry broadly) in Australia tends to be more politicised - so it is in the political 'arena' they express themselves. I would suggest that you might find more 'right-wing' haters in different forums - particularly the religious one. In Australia, though there is a cross over (of course) between politics and religion, the forums in which the 'fundamentalist' religious (for here we find the most haters) express themselves are not particularly visible. I think a counrty like Spain, where religion is more intergrated into politics (and therefore, according to your proposition, the two more intergrated into people's core identity *at the same time*) isa good example. Plenty of haters on all sides of the Spanish civil war! I am not sure that I agree with your proposistion, Andrew, that there are more left wing haters than right. I have no statistical evidence to back up my hunch - simply experience, but I would propose that this may seem to be the case because of the *forum* in which ‘haters’ tend to express themselves. And this, I would suggest, would differe from country to country and culture to culture.

The ‘left’ (verrrrry broadly) in Australia tends to be more politicised - so it is in the political ‘arena’ they express themselves. I would suggest that you might find more ‘right-wing’ haters in different forums - particularly the religious one. In Australia, though there is a cross over (of course) between politics and religion, the forums in which the ‘fundamentalist’ religious (for here we find the most haters) express themselves are not particularly visible.

I think a counrty like Spain, where religion is more intergrated into politics (and therefore, according to your proposition, the two more intergrated into people’s core identity *at the same time*) isa good example. Plenty of haters on all sides of the Spanish civil war!

]]> By: Jason Soon http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4040 Jason Soon Sun, 21 Jan 2007 10:40:54 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/19/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4040 "Oh dear, Andrew “Oh dear, Andrew

]]> By: Jolanda Challita http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4039 Jolanda Challita Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:47:26 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/19/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4039 I think lefties are ruder than those from the right. The reason I think this is that those on the right are generally better off financially and the left are resentful of this as they like mediocre to be classified as the highest level so that they then sit at the top. As a result of this leftist attitude towards those that are better off many lefties believe that anybody above their level needs and deserves to be cut down to size. I think lefties are ruder than those from the right.

The reason I think this is that those on the right are generally better off financially and the left are resentful of this as they like mediocre to be classified as the highest level so that they then sit at the top.

As a result of this leftist attitude towards those that are better off many lefties believe that anybody above their level needs and deserves to be cut down to size.

]]> By: Andrew Norton http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4038 Andrew Norton Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:32:27 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/19/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4038 "You “You

]]> By: Bannerman http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4037 Bannerman Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:53:16 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/19/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4037 Oh dear, Andrew......Bannerman thought you had at least a snifter of rationality to you. It seems he was so sadly inaccurate in his assessment. You're merely another of the 'anti-left' brigade, along with Blair and Bickford. Shame on you, Andrew. Oh dear, Andrew……Bannerman thought you had at least a snifter of rationality to you. It seems he was so sadly inaccurate in his assessment. You’re merely another of the ‘anti-left’ brigade, along with Blair and Bickford. Shame on you, Andrew.

]]> By: Andrew Norton http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4036 Andrew Norton Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:39:37 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/19/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4036 Antonios - 'It' was a reference to ethnic violence. Antonios - ‘It’ was a reference to ethnic violence.

]]> By: Antonios http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4035 Antonios Fri, 19 Jan 2007 08:04:53 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/19/dob-in-a-trot/#comment-4035 "the closer something is to a person “the closer something is to a person

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