Comments on: Rude lefties

By: Boris

Boris — Sun, 11 Mar 2007 11:50:39 +0000

Although I have no reason to question the sincerely of AN’s observations, I do not have a similar experience. I find in my political discussions that people on both sides usually have strong views. I know a few extreme leftist friends (who think ALP is not left-wing and no different from extreme-right Libs), who do think I am misguided but not an egoist or evil. Same with me: I think they are misgudied. Similar with right wing people (who consider myself as a leftie).

Did I say anything useful?

By: Yobbo

Yobbo — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 04:32:45 +0000

I don’t think JC, Bird or Tim Blair have ever thrown a chair at a police van at a right-wing protest. Landeryou might have thrown a few chairs in his Young Lib days though, I hear it’s all the rage at NUS meetings.

By: Rob

Rob — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 01:35:22 +0000

I don’t know that ‘rudeness’ is what characterises the left. The commenters at Tim B.’s are rude and raucous, but it’s all fairly light-hearted. I think what characterises (some elements of) the left is its venom. Look at the way they respond to global warming sceptics, Keith Windschuttle, etc.

Steve’s got a point about the quasi-religiosity of the left. Challenges to the left’s sacred cows are regarded not as honest differences of opinion, but as heresy. And revisionism, of course, is apostasy.

(First time I’ve been able to access this site for days, Andrew.)

By: Andrew Norton

Andrew Norton — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:46:58 +0000

Apologies to everyone for the site’s technical problems this week - I am not sure what the problem is. When I have had similar issues in the past Yahoo (the host) support has not provided useful advice and the problem has corrected itself. In this case it is not consistent; sometimes it is really bad, other times ok. It seems worse when I use Explorer than when I use Firefox. Any ideas from more technically competent people?

By: Russell

Russell — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 12:00:40 +0000

Andrew - maybe something is going wrong with your site - lately I often get “page not found”, time outs, or it comes up with all the text struck through! Not enough electricity in Victoria to power the thing?

By: Parkos

Parkos — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:35:19 +0000

“the most consistently abusive people are on the Right”

Yep, the Catallaxy pub should close its doors and throw the few remaining scoudrels out onto the street. They dont really get any serious discussion going there thesedays. Lucky for Jason Soon he is just losing face rather than running a business and losing money.

From Bird’s blog today:

Bird: A bit of f** gratitude every now and then wouldn

By: Andrew Norton

Andrew Norton — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:30:31 +0000

I’d agree that in the blogosphere many of the most uncivil people are on the right. There have been quite a few problems with Young Libs and Liberal students over recent years, though of the incidents I am aware of nearly all have been alcohol-related, and many have involved other Liberals rather than ideological enemies. It’s got more in common with a Saturday night pub brawl than the kind of behaviour I was talking about in the post. But there is no excuse for it either way.

I’m not sure how to classify the Labor Right - I was putting Latham in that tradition, but there is probably a distinction worth making between the old-fashioned working class union thuggery from which the Labor Right gets its culture and the ideological contempt that I see from the broader left. The Labor Right are serious about power, which makes them far more pragmatic and less ideological.

By: Robert

Robert — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:21:48 +0000

I would also add that my experience in the ALP is that members of the Right faction (especially in NSW) are far more willing to sledge and bully.

Also, the Young Liberals are no angels…

By: Robert

Robert — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:12:49 +0000

In the oz blogosphere at least, I think the most consistently abusive people are on the Right — JC, Bird, Slanderyou, Tim Blair’s minions, etc.

By: Sacha Blumen

Sacha Blumen — Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:09:03 +0000

I’ve tried to read this thread but havn’t been able to till now - the browser kept on throwing up an error when trying to access Andrew N’s blog. Hopefully it won’t from now on!

I don’t have enough information to consider whether “lefties” are or can be more uncivil than “righties”. I have had some experience with “righties” and more with “lefties” and can offer the following.

Whether people are civil or not probably depends on their personality, how “committed” they are to their brand of politics and how open they are to alternative political views. I know a number of people who cannot imagine how anyone could vote for the Liberal Party or who think that Howard does not act (possibly ever) with good intentions.

I’ve known some uncivil people on the left and on the right, and also very civil people on both the left and right. Personally, I think it’s important to be open-minded and open to the possibility that your conceptions or pre-conceptions about many things (especially complex and complicated things such as politics) might be wrong.

In wanting to connect with and understand other people, it isn’t helpful to dismiss their political ideas without attempting to understand them. This is a fundamental mistake.

I will make this observation: quite a few lefty people I’ve known appear to have have their understandings of the world or worldview (the German word for which is fabulous) strongly based or felt, and can react quite vigorously and emotionally if these strongly held beliefs or world-view are challenged. To me these reactions have often seemed quite emotional. I cannot really talk about righties as I havn’t known enough of them well enough although it seems as if they often strongly react against what they see as lefties’ silliness or unwillingness to deal with reality.

Just some thoughts.