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]]> By: Sinclair Davidson http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4324 Sinclair Davidson Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:20:26 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/26/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4324 DD - I would have thought that the progressive agenda had been largely realised. One of the reasons libertarians and conservatives have 'teamed up' is to wind back the progressive hegemony. You'll have to be more specific about your reply to Jason on areas where libertarians and progressive could cooperate more. Just looking at them I see little room for cooperation. On civil liberties the biggest problem Australia has is in mandatory detention of illegal migrants - introduced by the ALP. Australia does not have a defense lobby nor a 'national security state' - if anything spending on defense is too low. Contempt for crony capitalism - agreed. But the ALP is talking about reintroducing active industry policy and support for so-called quarantine and farm protection is bipartisan. Getting the state out of the bedroom - this happened years, if not decades, ago. Getting the state out of issuing marriage licences to one man and one woman is an objective. Getting the state out of the drugs cupboard, we can agree there too, but I would ahve thought that progressives support the PBS, and would be loathe for it to be abolished. DD - I would have thought that the progressive agenda had been largely realised. One of the reasons libertarians and conservatives have ‘teamed up’ is to wind back the progressive hegemony.

You’ll have to be more specific about your reply to Jason on areas where libertarians and progressive could cooperate more. Just looking at them I see little room for cooperation.
On civil liberties the biggest problem Australia has is in mandatory detention of illegal migrants - introduced by the ALP.
Australia does not have a defense lobby nor a ‘national security state’ - if anything spending on defense is too low.
Contempt for crony capitalism - agreed. But the ALP is talking about reintroducing active industry policy and support for so-called quarantine and farm protection is bipartisan.
Getting the state out of the bedroom - this happened years, if not decades, ago. Getting the state out of issuing marriage licences to one man and one woman is an objective. Getting the state out of the drugs cupboard, we can agree there too, but I would ahve thought that progressives support the PBS, and would be loathe for it to be abolished.

]]> By: derrida derider http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4323 derrida derider Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:03:05 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/26/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4323 Pretty obviously, Jason: - concern for civil liberties - distrust of the defence lobby and the national security state - contempt for crony capitalism - getting the state out of the bedroom and out of the drugs cupboard. Its true that on many of these progressives and libertarians differ on means, but my point is that we have in common that we differ from conservatives on these ends. That libertarian/conservative alliance has the objective outcome of furthering conservative ends on all these issues. Pretty obviously, Jason:
- concern for civil liberties
- distrust of the defence lobby and the national security state
- contempt for crony capitalism
- getting the state out of the bedroom and out of the drugs cupboard.

Its true that on many of these progressives and libertarians differ on means, but my point is that we have in common that we differ from conservatives on these ends. That libertarian/conservative alliance has the objective outcome of furthering conservative ends on all these issues.

]]> By: Jason Soon http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4322 Jason Soon Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:57:47 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/26/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4322 "Rafe you have never experienced international free trade in goods, services and labour" I suppose you have, Parkos, as a white slave. DD, the 'progressives' don't make it easy for libertarians to get in bed with them. Can you give us some examples of where these opportunities are? “Rafe you have never experienced international free trade in goods, services and labour”

I suppose you have, Parkos, as a white slave.

DD, the ‘progressives’ don’t make it easy for libertarians to get in bed with them. Can you give us some examples of where these opportunities are?

]]> By: derrida derider http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4321 derrida derider Tue, 30 Jan 2007 05:23:52 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/26/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4321 We gain knowledge of preferences not from what people express them as but as their behaviour reveals - ie watch what they do, not what they say. And politically libertarians are everywhere in bed with conservatives, not progressives. Why? An old-fashioned Marxist would no doubt mumble something about 'class interest'. I find it disturbingly difficult to dismiss that thesis out of hand. We gain knowledge of preferences not from what people express them as but as their behaviour reveals - ie watch what they do, not what they say. And politically libertarians are everywhere in bed with conservatives, not progressives.

Why? An old-fashioned Marxist would no doubt mumble something about ‘class interest’. I find it disturbingly difficult to dismiss that thesis out of hand.

]]> By: Fred Argy http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4320 Fred Argy Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:43:23 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/26/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4320 I enjoyed reading your thoughtful piece. But I find these various types of I enjoyed reading your thoughtful piece. But I find these various types of

]]> By: Parkos http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4319 Parkos Sun, 28 Jan 2007 14:44:05 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/26/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4319 "free trad" is probably a mixture of two forms of 20th century jazz, I mean free trade. “free trad” is probably a mixture of two forms of 20th century jazz, I mean free trade.

]]> By: Parkos http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4318 Parkos Sun, 28 Jan 2007 14:41:09 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/26/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4318 Rafe you have never experienced international free trade in goods, services and labour. Neither have any of the thinkers you drag up from their well worn tombstones, or the emancipist chancers who hire you. So how exactly would any of you know what the benefits of free trad are? You can only guess, admit it. Rafe you have never experienced international free trade in goods, services and labour. Neither have any of the thinkers you drag up from their well worn tombstones, or the emancipist chancers who hire you. So how exactly would any of you know what the benefits of free trad are?
You can only guess, admit it.

]]> By: Rafe http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4317 Rafe Sun, 28 Jan 2007 12:40:51 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/26/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4317 Free trade is a good proxy for classical liberalism and it was interesting to see how both parties managed to avoid giving out clear free trade messages even when there was just about bipartisan agreement on the desirability of the deregulation agenda. The Coalition was bitterly divided on the issue at least up to 1990, Keating hedged in 1993 and the Coalition retreated after the debacle of 1993. Then Labor in opposition did not attempt to take credit for the benefits of deregulation. The result is that the public has never had a straight feed on the benefits of free trade and cognate reforms. Free trade is a good proxy for classical liberalism and it was interesting to see how both parties managed to avoid giving out clear free trade messages even when there was just about bipartisan agreement on the desirability of the deregulation agenda. The Coalition was bitterly divided on the issue at least up to 1990, Keating hedged in 1993 and the Coalition retreated after the debacle of 1993. Then Labor in opposition did not attempt to take credit for the benefits of deregulation. The result is that the public has never had a straight feed on the benefits of free trade and cognate reforms.

]]> By: DREADNOUGHT http://andrewnorton.info/2007/01/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4316 DREADNOUGHT Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:23:39 +0000 http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/01/26/the-invisible-classical-liberals/#comment-4316 No surprises <a href="http://www.ozpolitics.info/blog/index.php?page_id=206&id=5a62b572ac65639a20edbe2eaa9766f8">for me</a>. No surprises for me.

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