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	<title>Comments on: The politics of water #2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://andrewnorton.info/2007/02/the-politics-of-water-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/02/the-politics-of-water-2/</link>
	<description>Observations from Carlton's Lone Classical Liberal</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: bench pressing</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/02/the-politics-of-water-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4942</link>
		<dc:creator>bench pressing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/02/21/the-politics-of-water-2/#comment-4942</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;bench pressing...&lt;/strong&gt;

I found it very useful. Thanks for the knowledge. I am personally trying to follow the advice &#38; try to be independent....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>bench pressing&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>I found it very useful. Thanks for the knowledge. I am personally trying to follow the advice &amp; try to be independent&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: parkos</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/02/the-politics-of-water-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4950</link>
		<dc:creator>parkos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 02:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/02/21/the-politics-of-water-2/#comment-4950</guid>
		<description>Economic rationale can function in many directions.
  Dont you agree it is about time the educational consumer movement was fully activated in Australia?

 Dont answer! You also get a week at Noosa!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Economic rationale can function in many directions.<br />
  Dont you agree it is about time the educational consumer movement was fully activated in Australia?</p>
<p> Dont answer! You also get a week at Noosa!</p>
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		<title>By: Club Troppo &#187; Weekend Missing Link</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/02/the-politics-of-water-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4949</link>
		<dc:creator>Club Troppo &#187; Weekend Missing Link</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/02/21/the-politics-of-water-2/#comment-4949</guid>
		<description>[...] More amusingly, Andrew Landeryou&#8217;s ongoing admiration (pisstake) of Sophie Mirabella, MP for Indi, continues, while Andrew Norton applies his psephological skills to the water debate. For all those footy tragics who want to combine watching their club ascending the ladder into heaven with politics (the greatest game - yes, no, maybe?). Bryan proposes an election tipping competition. Meanwhile Skeletor at The Spin Starts Here is funny on the utter pointlessness of the NSW election. Modia Minotaur, by contrast, does her best to inject some interest into the NSW election. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] More amusingly, Andrew Landeryou&#8217;s ongoing admiration (pisstake) of Sophie Mirabella, MP for Indi, continues, while Andrew Norton applies his psephological skills to the water debate. For all those footy tragics who want to combine watching their club ascending the ladder into heaven with politics (the greatest game - yes, no, maybe?). Bryan proposes an election tipping competition. Meanwhile Skeletor at The Spin Starts Here is funny on the utter pointlessness of the NSW election. Modia Minotaur, by contrast, does her best to inject some interest into the NSW election. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Damien Eldridge</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/02/the-politics-of-water-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4948</link>
		<dc:creator>Damien Eldridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 09:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/02/21/the-politics-of-water-2/#comment-4948</guid>
		<description>Water policy in various parts of Australia seems to be in somewhat of a mess. Two examples are worth noting. The first relates to the interaction of water conservation policies and price regulations for utilities (public or otherwise). The second relates to some uses of irrigation.

I seem to recall reading some time back (I think it was in the Canberra Times) that when water restrictions were eased in Canberra, the water utility (ACTEW-AGL) was allowed to increase its water prices. The reason for this was that the enforced water restrictions during the previous period had reduced consumnption of water and thereby reduced their revenue. The interaction of the water conservation and price regulation policies resulted in a very silly outcome. When water became LESS scarce in Canberra, the price of water INCREASED.

The second example involves farmers choices about what crops to grow in Australia. Admittedly, I don't know very much about the nature of various crops, so I may be wrong here. But I have the impression that cotton and rice are very water intensive crops. If this is the case, it seems ludicrous that these crops are grown in Australia, where water is a relatively scarce resource.

Both of these problems could be overcome by a sensible pricing policy on water. If water was rationed at least in part by prices during times of relative scarcity, then the reduction in demand might not result in falling revenues for water utilities, reducing the need for compensatory price rises being allowed by the regulator when water becomes less scarce. Furthermore, sensible pricing of water would reduce the profitability of cotton and rice crops and, with a bit of luck, might even stop them from being planted in Australia altogether.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Water policy in various parts of Australia seems to be in somewhat of a mess. Two examples are worth noting. The first relates to the interaction of water conservation policies and price regulations for utilities (public or otherwise). The second relates to some uses of irrigation.</p>
<p>I seem to recall reading some time back (I think it was in the Canberra Times) that when water restrictions were eased in Canberra, the water utility (ACTEW-AGL) was allowed to increase its water prices. The reason for this was that the enforced water restrictions during the previous period had reduced consumnption of water and thereby reduced their revenue. The interaction of the water conservation and price regulation policies resulted in a very silly outcome. When water became LESS scarce in Canberra, the price of water INCREASED.</p>
<p>The second example involves farmers choices about what crops to grow in Australia. Admittedly, I don&#8217;t know very much about the nature of various crops, so I may be wrong here. But I have the impression that cotton and rice are very water intensive crops. If this is the case, it seems ludicrous that these crops are grown in Australia, where water is a relatively scarce resource.</p>
<p>Both of these problems could be overcome by a sensible pricing policy on water. If water was rationed at least in part by prices during times of relative scarcity, then the reduction in demand might not result in falling revenues for water utilities, reducing the need for compensatory price rises being allowed by the regulator when water becomes less scarce. Furthermore, sensible pricing of water would reduce the profitability of cotton and rice crops and, with a bit of luck, might even stop them from being planted in Australia altogether.</p>
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		<title>By: Parkos</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/02/the-politics-of-water-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4947</link>
		<dc:creator>Parkos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 09:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/02/21/the-politics-of-water-2/#comment-4947</guid>
		<description>If we continue to hear about the costs, we need to hear more about consumer insurance and guarantees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we continue to hear about the costs, we need to hear more about consumer insurance and guarantees.</p>
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		<title>By: Parkos</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/02/the-politics-of-water-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4946</link>
		<dc:creator>Parkos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 09:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/02/21/the-politics-of-water-2/#comment-4946</guid>
		<description>Seriously, if education is a product for sale, the refunds should be available on faulty product.
Particularly when stroppy fat bald little men from the North of England are flown out to Australia at taxpayers expense and insult the students who are paying possibly more than $100 per hour each depending on how many lectures they actually attend.

 Students should be allowed to swipe a smart card that charges them if they attend a lecture and decide not to leave in the 1st 5 minutes.

 This was the way in Adam Smith's day at Scottish Unis. Professors only received payment if they could attract and retain students.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously, if education is a product for sale, the refunds should be available on faulty product.<br />
Particularly when stroppy fat bald little men from the North of England are flown out to Australia at taxpayers expense and insult the students who are paying possibly more than $100 per hour each depending on how many lectures they actually attend.</p>
<p> Students should be allowed to swipe a smart card that charges them if they attend a lecture and decide not to leave in the 1st 5 minutes.</p>
<p> This was the way in Adam Smith&#8217;s day at Scottish Unis. Professors only received payment if they could attract and retain students.</p>
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		<title>By: Parkos</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/02/the-politics-of-water-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4945</link>
		<dc:creator>Parkos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 08:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/02/21/the-politics-of-water-2/#comment-4945</guid>
		<description>Accross the board (not just some universities), male arts grads earn on average less over their lifetime than their non qualified counterparts.
 You should probably organise a HECS refund and time out of the workforce compensation lump sum for male arts graduates because the sums cited below would probably be similar in Australia. Also note, that it is low average of female salaries that allow female arts graduates to to make more money than their non-qualified contemporaries:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/books/2007/02/male_arts_graduates_beware.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Accross the board (not just some universities), male arts grads earn on average less over their lifetime than their non qualified counterparts.<br />
 You should probably organise a HECS refund and time out of the workforce compensation lump sum for male arts graduates because the sums cited below would probably be similar in Australia. Also note, that it is low average of female salaries that allow female arts graduates to to make more money than their non-qualified contemporaries:</p>
<p><a href="http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/books/2007/02/male_arts_graduates_beware.html" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/books/2007/02/male_arts_graduates_beware.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Norton</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/02/the-politics-of-water-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4944</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Norton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 03:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/02/21/the-politics-of-water-2/#comment-4944</guid>
		<description>I will have another paper out on quotas in the near future, though they probably only genuinely exclude a few thousand people a year. Worth changing, but the impact would not be huge. The main problem in this respect is that too few people get to the point where they are likely to be good candidates for university education.

The main reasons for abolishing quotas are to increase competition and to improve resource allocation. The desire to avoid competition is why you don't hear much from unis on this issue, though they are so fed up with DEST bureaucracy that they probably are more open to change than in the past.

My CIS background does mean that some people won't listen. But without it, you wouldn't even hear about the problems of quotas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will have another paper out on quotas in the near future, though they probably only genuinely exclude a few thousand people a year. Worth changing, but the impact would not be huge. The main problem in this respect is that too few people get to the point where they are likely to be good candidates for university education.</p>
<p>The main reasons for abolishing quotas are to increase competition and to improve resource allocation. The desire to avoid competition is why you don&#8217;t hear much from unis on this issue, though they are so fed up with DEST bureaucracy that they probably are more open to change than in the past.</p>
<p>My CIS background does mean that some people won&#8217;t listen. But without it, you wouldn&#8217;t even hear about the problems of quotas.</p>
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		<title>By: David Rubie</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/02/the-politics-of-water-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4943</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rubie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 02:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/02/21/the-politics-of-water-2/#comment-4943</guid>
		<description>Andrew Norton wrote:
&lt;i&gt;David - I am the only person in the country advocating full choice in higher education, proposing the total abolition of quotas. And I want more competition in schools, as one means of improving student outcomes.&lt;/i&gt;

These are interesting ideas.  One question though - do you think working for the CIS is an impediment to them getting a fair hearing?

I'm sure there are plenty of parents who'd like to hear you would like to improve student opportunities along with outcomes, which is something we don't hear much of from conservative think tanks (not that the Evatt foundation and their ilk are much better at concealing their partisan approaches to social and economic issues).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew Norton wrote:<br />
<i>David - I am the only person in the country advocating full choice in higher education, proposing the total abolition of quotas. And I want more competition in schools, as one means of improving student outcomes.</i></p>
<p>These are interesting ideas.  One question though - do you think working for the CIS is an impediment to them getting a fair hearing?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure there are plenty of parents who&#8217;d like to hear you would like to improve student opportunities along with outcomes, which is something we don&#8217;t hear much of from conservative think tanks (not that the Evatt foundation and their ilk are much better at concealing their partisan approaches to social and economic issues).</p>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/02/the-politics-of-water-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4941</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/02/21/the-politics-of-water-2/#comment-4941</guid>
		<description>Andrew, I, like you, want more competition in and between schools. But competition to be the best doesn't have to involve creating a market for schools. It can come from a vocation, a passion for what you're doing, pride in being a leader ... all kinds of motivations.

There are already some excellent, and many good, state schools (not co-incidentally often in the richer suburbs). I think it's a failure of support by parents and governments, and a failure of management, that there are schools that don't deliver what every child deserves.

Rajat asked why I had confidence in government to micro-manage education successfully. It's because I've worked in parts of the public service which run really well, and in parts which are a disaster - and the difference is management, and resources. If the Education Department was properly resourced and managed I think it would overall do a better job than the market. It's Ministers and Directors-General that are failing and need to be held accountable.

When I'm depressed I think maybe politics isn't ever going to work - the interest groups, the media, the process by which people get pre-selected etc, but I'm not ready yet to ditch it for more of a market approach to ordering the most important aspects of our lives.

We in WA have perhaps seen more of Julie than the rest - my impression: smart, quick, very ambitious, not very deep. One can only wonder about Julie and Ross Lightfoot .....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, I, like you, want more competition in and between schools. But competition to be the best doesn&#8217;t have to involve creating a market for schools. It can come from a vocation, a passion for what you&#8217;re doing, pride in being a leader &#8230; all kinds of motivations.</p>
<p>There are already some excellent, and many good, state schools (not co-incidentally often in the richer suburbs). I think it&#8217;s a failure of support by parents and governments, and a failure of management, that there are schools that don&#8217;t deliver what every child deserves.</p>
<p>Rajat asked why I had confidence in government to micro-manage education successfully. It&#8217;s because I&#8217;ve worked in parts of the public service which run really well, and in parts which are a disaster - and the difference is management, and resources. If the Education Department was properly resourced and managed I think it would overall do a better job than the market. It&#8217;s Ministers and Directors-General that are failing and need to be held accountable.</p>
<p>When I&#8217;m depressed I think maybe politics isn&#8217;t ever going to work - the interest groups, the media, the process by which people get pre-selected etc, but I&#8217;m not ready yet to ditch it for more of a market approach to ordering the most important aspects of our lives.</p>
<p>We in WA have perhaps seen more of Julie than the rest - my impression: smart, quick, very ambitious, not very deep. One can only wonder about Julie and Ross Lightfoot &#8230;..</p>
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