I could choose to work hard and make lots of money. Then I would apparently be “immoral” if I didn’t give x% of it away.

Instead I chose to quit my job and travel the world as a homeless unemployed bum. Consequently I’m not making much money and not giving much to the poor. I am making a decision that makes me better off (ie more happy) but provides less help to the poor. By the above standards (ie it is immoral not to sacrifice my happiness for poor people), it seems that I am more immoral than Nike.

Sorry.

I agree it’s nice to give people money.

But the offer still holds to employ my associates in Cambodia Russell. Only $50/month will make them more than happy. In some cases it will be a 66% pay increase! And if you aren’t able to do that at the moment… do you think the world may be just a bit better if we allow Nike to do it?

Just until you get your funding together.

My point is that morality isn’t inherent in the dollars and cents, it lies with the person creating the exchange. If Oxfam finds enough money out of its funds to pay some women $1 a day to run a women’s co-op producing craft goods, that’s a good thing; if Nike sets up a factory there and pays women $1 a day, and from their labour makes huge profits, it’s immoral. As to when the line is crossed, well, that varies (and I suppose it’s much easier to judge in others!) but excess is fairly obvious. (Not thinking of fridges filled with champagne as much as gold plated taps etc)

“How can I, or anyone else, “make” companies pay people more?” Creating a demand for Fair Trade products? Naming and shaming companies that exploit their workers?

The question it seems to me that you have to answer, is what would be a reasonable level of profits? What distinguishes reasonable from unreasonable? (This is not to say what I think constitutes a “reasonable” level of profits.) What is that basis of your conceptualisation of “reasonable profits”?

It seems to me that the core of this discussion, which I havn’t seen addressed in your comments, is that sweatshops pay people better wages than they otherwise would receive (if they worked elsewhere). The offer to the worker is better than elsewhere. The fact that it is not as good as many people in the west might like probably doesn’t matter much to the people being employed (this is my guess). How can I, or anyone else, “make” companies pay people more?

“I’m not sure what the fair trade argument is from Doug Cameron - something about a level playing field in wages and conditions? Anyway I’d be very surprised if organised labour in Australia has any objection to Oxfam’s Fair Trade project.”

The “fair trade” thing from Doug Cameron (amongst others) that you often hear about is not the coffee “Fair Trade” thing - my understanding about the Doug Cameron et al version of it is that there’s an insistence on minimum labour standards and perhaps environmental standards (unsure of that) before free trade deals are put into effect. In one sense, these “fair trade” deals could be seen as protectionist, which is often why they’re pilloried.

I might disagree with “There is nothing wrong with … spending your own money in any manner you chose” but at 106 comments let’s leave it for another time.