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	<title>Comments on: Why not all the Right is against the ABC</title>
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	<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/</link>
	<description>Observations from Carlton's Lone Classical Liberal</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Andrew Leigh</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6415</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/04/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6415</guid>
		<description>Andrew, I stand corrected. If Glyn would fire you in the event that the OS student influx ceased, I guess I should stop defaming you by calling you a goverment employee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, I stand corrected. If Glyn would fire you in the event that the OS student influx ceased, I guess I should stop defaming you by calling you a goverment employee.</p>
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		<title>By: Club Troppo &#187; Missing Link</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6395</link>
		<dc:creator>Club Troppo &#187; Missing Link</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 06:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/04/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6395</guid>
		<description>[...] Soon with stuff written for Policy. Andrew Norton, meanwhile, in his inimitable (but gentle) way takes apart a Robert Manne MSM op-ed, in so doing illustrating why many on the classical liberal right don&#8217;t care about bias at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Soon with stuff written for Policy. Andrew Norton, meanwhile, in his inimitable (but gentle) way takes apart a Robert Manne MSM op-ed, in so doing illustrating why many on the classical liberal right don&#8217;t care about bias at [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Norton</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6414</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Norton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Apr 2007 00:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/04/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6414</guid>
		<description>Andrew - My position did not exist prior to my taking the job in early 2000 (well into the o/s student boom), and indeed me-equivalents are still quite rare around the higher ed sector. Universities tend to use the AVCC or distribute government relations activities among senior executives. I am there because the U of M is one of the less compliant institutions, and wanted someone like me to advice on optimising our situation and challenging the (dysfunctional) policy status quo.

If overseas students disappeared, the University of Melbourne, like almost every other university around the country, would face massive and unsustainable deficits. All staff not essential to core operations would have to be sacked, me included. Indeed, it is doubtful that the institution could survive at all in its current form, so there would be no point staying anyway.

I agree with Sinclair - the view you have about universities, one that seems shared within the government, is wrong in law and in practice. Universities are independent institutions created by state statute (except the ANU). No government appoints a majority of members of the governing council. Apart from the ANU, the federal government appoints no members. It is merely the largest client, and has abused the power that position has given them (assisted by incompetent political strategies adopted by universities).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew - My position did not exist prior to my taking the job in early 2000 (well into the o/s student boom), and indeed me-equivalents are still quite rare around the higher ed sector. Universities tend to use the AVCC or distribute government relations activities among senior executives. I am there because the U of M is one of the less compliant institutions, and wanted someone like me to advice on optimising our situation and challenging the (dysfunctional) policy status quo.</p>
<p>If overseas students disappeared, the University of Melbourne, like almost every other university around the country, would face massive and unsustainable deficits. All staff not essential to core operations would have to be sacked, me included. Indeed, it is doubtful that the institution could survive at all in its current form, so there would be no point staying anyway.</p>
<p>I agree with Sinclair - the view you have about universities, one that seems shared within the government, is wrong in law and in practice. Universities are independent institutions created by state statute (except the ANU). No government appoints a majority of members of the governing council. Apart from the ANU, the federal government appoints no members. It is merely the largest client, and has abused the power that position has given them (assisted by incompetent political strategies adopted by universities).</p>
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		<title>By: Sinclair Davidson</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6389</link>
		<dc:creator>Sinclair Davidson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2007 23:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/04/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6389</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;unless the removal of fee-paying students would abolish your job&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think I understand the argument, but it's still not clear how this differs from other jobs in other industries.  Up until I took on an Admin role last year (ending in June this year) I taught fee-paying students only (who tended to be foreign). Last year I taught some honours students (two of whom had HECS places). If the OS market had collapsed (to zero, say) 99 percent of my students would be gone. My employer would have to lay off staff. How they choose to do so would have an impact of whether my job per se was abolished. (Personally, I suspect some sort of last-in-first-out, or no-PhD, or no publications rule would be applied). The point here is that revenue is fungible within the organisation. (So while I may be employed to earn the marginal dollar, I might not be the marginal employee - and I'm sticking to that story  :)  )

But consider the general point. The federal government is a large consumer/financier of education services. It contributes between 30 - 40 percent of my employers Income Statement (from memory). If any organisation lost its single largest customer jobs would be lost.  Ultimately, in most organisation employees are paid for by the consumer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>unless the removal of fee-paying students would abolish your job</p></blockquote>
<p>I think I understand the argument, but it&#8217;s still not clear how this differs from other jobs in other industries.  Up until I took on an Admin role last year (ending in June this year) I taught fee-paying students only (who tended to be foreign). Last year I taught some honours students (two of whom had HECS places). If the OS market had collapsed (to zero, say) 99 percent of my students would be gone. My employer would have to lay off staff. How they choose to do so would have an impact of whether my job per se was abolished. (Personally, I suspect some sort of last-in-first-out, or no-PhD, or no publications rule would be applied). The point here is that revenue is fungible within the organisation. (So while I may be employed to earn the marginal dollar, I might not be the marginal employee - and I&#8217;m sticking to that story  <img src='http://andrewnorton.info/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
<p>But consider the general point. The federal government is a large consumer/financier of education services. It contributes between 30 - 40 percent of my employers Income Statement (from memory). If any organisation lost its single largest customer jobs would be lost.  Ultimately, in most organisation employees are paid for by the consumer.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Leigh</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6394</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2007 22:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/04/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6394</guid>
		<description>Sorry, I read Sinclair's comment too hastily. I guess I'd give it the same answer as Andrew Norton's: unless the removal of fee-paying students would abolish your job, I'd regard you as government-funded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I read Sinclair&#8217;s comment too hastily. I guess I&#8217;d give it the same answer as Andrew Norton&#8217;s: unless the removal of fee-paying students would abolish your job, I&#8217;d regard you as government-funded.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Leigh</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6393</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2007 22:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/04/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6393</guid>
		<description>Andrew, was your UoM position really only created when overseas student numbers boomed? I would've thought it would've existed regardless. In a similar sense, I would've regarded the new accountancy department hires as 100% private money, and the old philosophy deparment staff as 100% government money.

Sinc, you're quite right that my own position is 100% taxpayer funded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, was your UoM position really only created when overseas student numbers boomed? I would&#8217;ve thought it would&#8217;ve existed regardless. In a similar sense, I would&#8217;ve regarded the new accountancy department hires as 100% private money, and the old philosophy deparment staff as 100% government money.</p>
<p>Sinc, you&#8217;re quite right that my own position is 100% taxpayer funded.</p>
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		<title>By: jimmythespiv</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6413</link>
		<dc:creator>jimmythespiv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 08:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/04/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6413</guid>
		<description>Read "Recollections of a bleeding heart", byDonWatson, which shows that Labor thought the media were against them (particularly the ABC) throughout. I've long thought the ABC's problem is less that it is left wing, but that it's assiduously anti the government of the day and excessively idealistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read &#8220;Recollections of a bleeding heart&#8221;, byDonWatson, which shows that Labor thought the media were against them (particularly the ABC) throughout. I&#8217;ve long thought the ABC&#8217;s problem is less that it is left wing, but that it&#8217;s assiduously anti the government of the day and excessively idealistic.</p>
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		<title>By: Boris</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6412</link>
		<dc:creator>Boris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 04:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/04/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6412</guid>
		<description>I think TV is well suited for in-depth analysis. Newsnight on BBC2 is (or was) a good example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think TV is well suited for in-depth analysis. Newsnight on BBC2 is (or was) a good example.</p>
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		<title>By: Noel Hausler</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6392</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Hausler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/04/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6392</guid>
		<description>I find programs like The Insiders frustrating. Cassidy does not seem to exercise much control over Piers and Bolt who talk over the others, finger point and Cassidy seems to always look towards Bolt first. The others arn't so anti-Howard as Bolt is antiLabour. Perhaps Marr should appear more often. I like seeing the venom in Bolt's eyes when Marr is talking. If this show does not improve, I'll be spending more time online.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find programs like The Insiders frustrating. Cassidy does not seem to exercise much control over Piers and Bolt who talk over the others, finger point and Cassidy seems to always look towards Bolt first. The others arn&#8217;t so anti-Howard as Bolt is antiLabour. Perhaps Marr should appear more often. I like seeing the venom in Bolt&#8217;s eyes when Marr is talking. If this show does not improve, I&#8217;ll be spending more time online.</p>
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		<title>By: David Rubie</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2007/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6411</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rubie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 11:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/04/04/why-not-all-the-right-is-against-the-abc/#comment-6411</guid>
		<description>Russell wrote:
&lt;i&gt;it looked like the interviewer wasn’t really familiar with what came out at the CCC hearings. A very bad interview.&lt;/i&gt;

I've noted myself that the 7:30 report isn't what it used to be - they are still finding their feet after the witch hunt last year about "fair and balanced" reporting.  What I want to see is a return to critical stories of government (*any* government) that have been purged in the tentative approaches now adopted by an organisation cowed by baseless criticism.

The Burke and Grill story is an interesting one - there's basically little evidence of anything other than normal government at work (which is objectionable when you find out about it, but hardly novel, new or even exciting).  There is no evidence of actual corruption in their post-criminal careers.  Keating was no fan of the ABC when it was chasing his government, I get the impression that the current lot are rather thin skinned or have something to hide (or worse, are too stupid to have anything to hide i.e. AWB, children overboard).  The whole "ABC bias" is a weird sideshow with no winners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russell wrote:<br />
<i>it looked like the interviewer wasn’t really familiar with what came out at the CCC hearings. A very bad interview.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve noted myself that the 7:30 report isn&#8217;t what it used to be - they are still finding their feet after the witch hunt last year about &#8220;fair and balanced&#8221; reporting.  What I want to see is a return to critical stories of government (*any* government) that have been purged in the tentative approaches now adopted by an organisation cowed by baseless criticism.</p>
<p>The Burke and Grill story is an interesting one - there&#8217;s basically little evidence of anything other than normal government at work (which is objectionable when you find out about it, but hardly novel, new or even exciting).  There is no evidence of actual corruption in their post-criminal careers.  Keating was no fan of the ABC when it was chasing his government, I get the impression that the current lot are rather thin skinned or have something to hide (or worse, are too stupid to have anything to hide i.e. AWB, children overboard).  The whole &#8220;ABC bias&#8221; is a weird sideshow with no winners.</p>
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