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	<title>Comments on: The Liberals and blue collar voters</title>
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	<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/</link>
	<description>Observations from Carlton's Lone Classical Liberal</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Possum Comitatus</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12515</link>
		<dc:creator>Possum Comitatus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 08:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/30/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12515</guid>
		<description>Oh, and I better add that there's actually a reason those two demographics are grouped together apart from sharing similar incomes and education levels - they also seem to share the same political buttons on the same issues that are opened to be pushed.

Just why that is the case makes my mind boggle sometimes because there's a fair bit of difference between the two  when you really get into it. But that seems to be a pretty familiar thing in political campaigning - often the "why" isnt figured out until a fairly substantial period of time after the "how" has already been developed and deployed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and I better add that there&#8217;s actually a reason those two demographics are grouped together apart from sharing similar incomes and education levels - they also seem to share the same political buttons on the same issues that are opened to be pushed.</p>
<p>Just why that is the case makes my mind boggle sometimes because there&#8217;s a fair bit of difference between the two  when you really get into it. But that seems to be a pretty familiar thing in political campaigning - often the &#8220;why&#8221; isnt figured out until a fairly substantial period of time after the &#8220;how&#8221; has already been developed and deployed.</p>
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		<title>By: Possum Comitatus</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12507</link>
		<dc:creator>Possum Comitatus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 08:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/30/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12507</guid>
		<description>The definition of "battler" is the problem because the cliche has has been a well spun exaggeration - although one still based on a good chunk of fact.

Most professional party pollsters in the western world (including Australia) use what we would call upper blue/lower white collar workers (or a derivative thereof) as the political demographic that we call "battlers" - where upper and lower are defined by income thresholds.

If we want to look at how the "howard battlers" went this election, we need to look at the demographic that actually caused the moniker to be invented in the first place - upper blue/lower white.

Not just blue - which is what tends to be looked at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The definition of &#8220;battler&#8221; is the problem because the cliche has has been a well spun exaggeration - although one still based on a good chunk of fact.</p>
<p>Most professional party pollsters in the western world (including Australia) use what we would call upper blue/lower white collar workers (or a derivative thereof) as the political demographic that we call &#8220;battlers&#8221; - where upper and lower are defined by income thresholds.</p>
<p>If we want to look at how the &#8220;howard battlers&#8221; went this election, we need to look at the demographic that actually caused the moniker to be invented in the first place - upper blue/lower white.</p>
<p>Not just blue - which is what tends to be looked at.</p>
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		<title>By: John Greenfield</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12514</link>
		<dc:creator>John Greenfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 23:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/30/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12514</guid>
		<description>Andrew

I think the takeaway from all this is not whether or not blue collar workers have switched to the Coalition. Rather, what is happening is a collapse of rusted-on voters for either party. We might say that the proportion of Useful Idiots is declining. This can only be a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew</p>
<p>I think the takeaway from all this is not whether or not blue collar workers have switched to the Coalition. Rather, what is happening is a collapse of rusted-on voters for either party. We might say that the proportion of Useful Idiots is declining. This can only be a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Norton</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12516</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Norton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 09:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/30/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12516</guid>
		<description>Pete - Among lower-income white collar occupations, in 2005 50% saw themselves as working class and 42% as middle class. Among blue collar occupations, 62% saw themselves as working class, and 29% as middle class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pete - Among lower-income white collar occupations, in 2005 50% saw themselves as working class and 42% as middle class. Among blue collar occupations, 62% saw themselves as working class, and 29% as middle class.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12512</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 04:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/30/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12512</guid>
		<description>I noticed this problem of designating who the deserving battlers were on the weekend when I heard Wayne Swan say this on the ABC:

"In the past they've been left out and the tax cuts have gone to those at the top end,'' he said.

"But the focus of the tax cuts that begin from the Rudd Government on July 1 are people like hairdressers, mechanics, child care workers, teachers aides, tradies [sic] and labourers."

I knew someone who until recently employed 3 mechanics and paid them the award wage plus quite a lot of cash - which he did because "everyone does it" and he didn't want his employees to go elsewhere. The mechanics also had use of the workshop on the weekends where they pursued their own various businesses - in total they earned a lot of money.
One of my brothers has a business in which he employs "subbies" or as Wayne says 'tradies' - problem is that they've made so much money in the last 10 years they're now semi-retired and living off their property investments. Try to get a 'tradie' to do anything in Perth!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I noticed this problem of designating who the deserving battlers were on the weekend when I heard Wayne Swan say this on the ABC:</p>
<p>&#8220;In the past they&#8217;ve been left out and the tax cuts have gone to those at the top end,&#8221; he said.</p>
<p>&#8220;But the focus of the tax cuts that begin from the Rudd Government on July 1 are people like hairdressers, mechanics, child care workers, teachers aides, tradies [sic] and labourers.&#8221;</p>
<p>I knew someone who until recently employed 3 mechanics and paid them the award wage plus quite a lot of cash - which he did because &#8220;everyone does it&#8221; and he didn&#8217;t want his employees to go elsewhere. The mechanics also had use of the workshop on the weekends where they pursued their own various businesses - in total they earned a lot of money.<br />
One of my brothers has a business in which he employs &#8220;subbies&#8221; or as Wayne says &#8216;tradies&#8217; - problem is that they&#8217;ve made so much money in the last 10 years they&#8217;re now semi-retired and living off their property investments. Try to get a &#8216;tradie&#8217; to do anything in Perth!</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Norton</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12519</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Norton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 04:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/30/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12519</guid>
		<description>It was only about 4% of the top 20%, so perhaps just a normal incidence of bad luck or bad management. Most people across all income groups pay their bills.

I agree that the lower-income white collar occupations could reasonably be called the modern working class (I'll check subjective perceptions), but politically they are different: in every election but one 1987-2004 more have voted Liberal than Labor, the reverse of the pattern for blue collar voters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was only about 4% of the top 20%, so perhaps just a normal incidence of bad luck or bad management. Most people across all income groups pay their bills.</p>
<p>I agree that the lower-income white collar occupations could reasonably be called the modern working class (I&#8217;ll check subjective perceptions), but politically they are different: in every election but one 1987-2004 more have voted Liberal than Labor, the reverse of the pattern for blue collar voters.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete from Perth</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12513</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete from Perth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 03:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/30/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12513</guid>
		<description>Andrew @5: "‘Blue collar’ means manual occupations such as labourers, machine workers, drivers and tradespersons. These are the groups traditionally described as ‘working class’"

A very shrinking group under that definition, and very "last century". The Industrial Age has been and gone.

The "lower-income white collar occupations" you mention in @3 are closer to the modern working class: call center operators, check-out operators, clerks, salesmen, etc. With modern managerial practices, they're just as much under the thumb as any 1950s labourer was, and for the most part identifies themselves as such.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew @5: &#8220;‘Blue collar’ means manual occupations such as labourers, machine workers, drivers and tradespersons. These are the groups traditionally described as ‘working class’&#8221;</p>
<p>A very shrinking group under that definition, and very &#8220;last century&#8221;. The Industrial Age has been and gone.</p>
<p>The &#8220;lower-income white collar occupations&#8221; you mention in @3 are closer to the modern working class: call center operators, check-out operators, clerks, salesmen, etc. With modern managerial practices, they&#8217;re just as much under the thumb as any 1950s labourer was, and for the most part identifies themselves as such.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete from Perth</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12518</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete from Perth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 03:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/30/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12518</guid>
		<description>Andrew: "Even in the top 20% of income earners, the General Social Survey finds a small percentage of people who have been unable to pay bills on time."

I'm not surprised... Australian housing: On the severe side of 'Severely Unaffordable', says worldwide study, the 4th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey. http://www.ozrealestatenews.com/2008/02/housing-affordability-how-does.html

Gotta love the free market, eh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew: &#8220;Even in the top 20% of income earners, the General Social Survey finds a small percentage of people who have been unable to pay bills on time.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not surprised&#8230; Australian housing: On the severe side of &#8216;Severely Unaffordable&#8217;, says worldwide study, the 4th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey. <a href="http://www.ozrealestatenews.com/2008/02/housing-affordability-how-does.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ozrealestatenews.com/2008/02/housing-affordability-how-does.html</a></p>
<p>Gotta love the free market, eh.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Norton</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12511</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Norton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 02:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/30/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12511</guid>
		<description>'Blue collar' means manual occupations such as labourers, machine workers, drivers and tradespersons. These are the groups traditionally described as 'working class', though as I noted in &lt;a href="http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/11/06/why-did-the-middle-class-shrink/#more-352" rel="nofollow"&gt;this post&lt;/a&gt;, class self-perception has never matched perfectly with objective measures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Blue collar&#8217; means manual occupations such as labourers, machine workers, drivers and tradespersons. These are the groups traditionally described as &#8216;working class&#8217;, though as I noted in <a href="http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2007/11/06/why-did-the-middle-class-shrink/#more-352" rel="nofollow">this post</a>, class self-perception has never matched perfectly with objective measures.</p>
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		<title>By: Spiros</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12508</link>
		<dc:creator>Spiros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/30/the-liberals-and-blue-collar-voters/#comment-12508</guid>
		<description>That hardly invalidates my point about class.

What's blue collar anyway? John Hewson used to wear investment-banker striped shirts with blue collars. They looked hideous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That hardly invalidates my point about class.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s blue collar anyway? John Hewson used to wear investment-banker striped shirts with blue collars. They looked hideous.</p>
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