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	<title>Comments on: Uni fees and the working class</title>
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	<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/uni-fees-and-the-poor-yet-again/</link>
	<description>Observations from Carlton's Lone Classical Liberal</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/uni-fees-and-the-poor-yet-again/#comment-12414</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/18/uni-fees-and-the-poor-yet-again/#comment-12414</guid>
		<description>Spiros - I would take issue with your argument and argue that exactly because Father was a successful plumber, Son may have a much better chance of being one.

Firstly, the Son has possibly spent all the holidays of his adolescence either following Dad and his workmates to job sites and labouring for them, or doing work with Dad around the house. All those hours spent around a successful trades person are hours where the Son is learning how to emulate the successful habits and practices of the Dad. It wasn't necessarily intentional (Dad may have wanted Son to go to uni and become an engineer), but it is an effective communication of knowledge and skills.

Secondly, the Dad may have hereditary attributes which make him a brilliant tradie. That may be physical size or strength, dexterity, etc. etc. The Son may have received these in his genetic inheritance.

Thirdly, the Dad knows what disciplines it takes to be a great tradie, and may have inculcated these in his son. Getting up early, paying attention to detail, looking after your tools - all of these things may be intentionally taught at home.

Lastly, Dad can probably instruct the Son on how to play the game of getting started. Either the Son can work for Dad, or Dad can make a call and get the Son to work for a mate, or Dad knows the right place to apply, and exactly what they are looking for. Once begun, Dad can make sure his Son takes the overtime, buys the best tools, treats people right, works on the bigger and better jobs.

So while Dad being a great tradesperson doesn't guarantee that the Son will follow in his footsteps, Dad can do an awful lot to improve the Son's chances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spiros - I would take issue with your argument and argue that exactly because Father was a successful plumber, Son may have a much better chance of being one.</p>
<p>Firstly, the Son has possibly spent all the holidays of his adolescence either following Dad and his workmates to job sites and labouring for them, or doing work with Dad around the house. All those hours spent around a successful trades person are hours where the Son is learning how to emulate the successful habits and practices of the Dad. It wasn&#8217;t necessarily intentional (Dad may have wanted Son to go to uni and become an engineer), but it is an effective communication of knowledge and skills.</p>
<p>Secondly, the Dad may have hereditary attributes which make him a brilliant tradie. That may be physical size or strength, dexterity, etc. etc. The Son may have received these in his genetic inheritance.</p>
<p>Thirdly, the Dad knows what disciplines it takes to be a great tradie, and may have inculcated these in his son. Getting up early, paying attention to detail, looking after your tools - all of these things may be intentionally taught at home.</p>
<p>Lastly, Dad can probably instruct the Son on how to play the game of getting started. Either the Son can work for Dad, or Dad can make a call and get the Son to work for a mate, or Dad knows the right place to apply, and exactly what they are looking for. Once begun, Dad can make sure his Son takes the overtime, buys the best tools, treats people right, works on the bigger and better jobs.</p>
<p>So while Dad being a great tradesperson doesn&#8217;t guarantee that the Son will follow in his footsteps, Dad can do an awful lot to improve the Son&#8217;s chances.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Norton</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/uni-fees-and-the-poor-yet-again/#comment-12416</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Norton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/18/uni-fees-and-the-poor-yet-again/#comment-12416</guid>
		<description>Conrad - I can't think of a specific study of families with low SES rankings on education and occupation but high on income. However, given that boys on average do worse at school than girls across all SES groups, and that on average kids whose parents are in blue collar jobs do worse at school than those in professional jobs, it seems highly unlikely that the one-third of so of boys in high-income low SES households are on average strong academic performers. (And those that are probably make up the 12% or so who do go to university.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conrad - I can&#8217;t think of a specific study of families with low SES rankings on education and occupation but high on income. However, given that boys on average do worse at school than girls across all SES groups, and that on average kids whose parents are in blue collar jobs do worse at school than those in professional jobs, it seems highly unlikely that the one-third of so of boys in high-income low SES households are on average strong academic performers. (And those that are probably make up the 12% or so who do go to university.)</p>
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		<title>By: conrad</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/uni-fees-and-the-poor-yet-again/#comment-12415</link>
		<dc:creator>conrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/18/uni-fees-and-the-poor-yet-again/#comment-12415</guid>
		<description>Who said kids with rich blue collar parents were getting weak school results?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who said kids with rich blue collar parents were getting weak school results?</p>
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		<title>By: Club Troppo &#187; Missing Link Daily</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/uni-fees-and-the-poor-yet-again/#comment-12413</link>
		<dc:creator>Club Troppo &#187; Missing Link Daily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/18/uni-fees-and-the-poor-yet-again/#comment-12413</guid>
		<description>[...] Norton has made some interesting discoveries while analysing census data on university attendance and socioeconomic status: The most striking finding, as it had been in earlier census-based studies, was that for&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Norton has made some interesting discoveries while analysing census data on university attendance and socioeconomic status: The most striking finding, as it had been in earlier census-based studies, was that for&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Norton</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/uni-fees-and-the-poor-yet-again/#comment-12412</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Norton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/18/uni-fees-and-the-poor-yet-again/#comment-12412</guid>
		<description>No, but it makes more sense than going to university on weak school results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, but it makes more sense than going to university on weak school results.</p>
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		<title>By: Spiros</title>
		<link>http://andrewnorton.info/2008/03/uni-fees-and-the-poor-yet-again/#comment-12411</link>
		<dc:creator>Spiros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 07:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://andrewnorton.info/blog/2008/03/18/uni-fees-and-the-poor-yet-again/#comment-12411</guid>
		<description>"Presumably young working class guys whose fathers earn good money decide that following them into relatively lucrative blue-collar occupations is their best option."

Yeah, but just because Father is a successful plumber doesn't mean that Son will be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Presumably young working class guys whose fathers earn good money decide that following them into relatively lucrative blue-collar occupations is their best option.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, but just because Father is a successful plumber doesn&#8217;t mean that Son will be.</p>
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