Comments on: Waleed Aly’s ‘Future of Conservatism’

By: Son of the Ratpack

Son of the Ratpack — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:34:40 +0000

There is a price in barter. It’s a relative price. If we agree to swap two apples for one orange then the price of an orange is two, in terms of apples. The reason we don’t do a huge amount of barter in modern societies is that it is more convenient to use money. But just because there is competition and choice doesn’t mean there is a market. A lion competes against other lions for food and for mates, and chooses which gazelle to kill. But there is no market.

By: JC

JC — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:23:37 +0000

There’s no price as we know it in barter either, Ratpak. It doesn’t mean that exchange doesn’t take place.

I think you’re confusing what a market actually is and seems to think it is objective thing.

By: Son of the Ratpack

Son of the Ratpack — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 06:50:08 +0000

As Andrew said, it’s not a market if there’s no price. All sentient creatures make choices every day, but that doesn’t mean there’s a market mediating those choices.

By: JC

JC — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 06:15:26 +0000

Funny, ratpack, but partner selection is in fact a market of sorts where people choose. So is religion to a large degree with them all competing for adherents.

I could go on as well.

By: Son of the Ratpack

Son of the Ratpack — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 06:14:18 +0000

I’ve not heard of any man marrying the whore he rented for an hour, not in real life anyway, but no doubt it’s happened somewhere, some time.

By: Baz (the ordinary Aussie)

Baz (the ordinary Aussie) — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 05:43:17 +0000

I think you guys are kidding yourselves if you think there’s no market in finding (or getting) love!

By: Andrew Norton

Andrew Norton — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 05:29:22 +0000

S of R – Indeed. For some of these, there is a liberal position (a voluntary choice) without there being other aspects of a market, such as an exchange or a price.

By: Son of the Ratpack

Son of the Ratpack — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 05:23:02 +0000

JC, I think what Andrew might have been getting at is that there is more to life than the problems where markets are the solution. For instance, the problem of choosing one’s life partner (or in the old terminology, husband or wife). This is not usually left to market forces. Following on, should I be faithfull to my partner? terminate the relationship, etc – again, not a market-type problem. Then, in no particular order: which religion do I follow, if any; which people do I want as friends; what boundaries do I set for my children; should I top myself if I get a terminal disease; the list goes on and on.

By: JC

JC — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:21:25 +0000

Hi Andrew:

No, not the only one, but it’s most probably the most optimum way in almost all instances where there is scarce resource allocation.

The only public goods I can think of are say the military, police and possibly some roads (only).

By: Andrew Norton » Blog Archive » Absolute vs relative understandings of ideology

Thu, 18 Mar 2010 02:04:52 +0000

[...] of the reasons Waleed Aly’s ‘Future of Conservatism’ essay goes wrong is that he thinks of political ideologies in absolute rather than relative [...]